Curse

Mistress Eyahl · Jun 10, 2005, 05:33 AM // 05:33

I spent 10 minutes writing that post.. I'm not sure I understood it either.

I rest my case though. Farming can NOT be compared to Golf

Proves mah point lol.

(And yes actually I like playing golf. My dad used to take me to the driving range when I was little and had my own small club hand made. Haven't been in a while but I wouldn't say no

)

And in responce to Dax:
Who says Tiger Practices more than any other golfer..?

Akshara · Jun 10, 2005, 05:35 AM // 05:35

Quote:

I spent 10 minutes writing that post.. I'm not sure I understood it either.

I rest my case though. Farming can NOT be compared to Golf Proves mah point lol.

lol, that's cool. And yes, the original comparison was not a good one itself.

Mistress Eyahl · Jun 10, 2005, 05:36 AM // 05:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akshara

Guess that's the part that made no sense. In golf, a birdie relies on your skill and ability, not something out of your control. It's not luck. Pro golfers hit birdie's because they want to, and miss because of luck, not the other way around. Just an fyi...

... I know how to play golf. I know what a birdie is. That part in the post is the... "Oh but by the way.. in the REAL world you control whether you get a birdie.. in this comparison, you don't"

It was all to emphasise that nothing you do in farming short of repeating it, guarentees drops. Whereas in golf, winning the PGA is ALL in your control. I hope this finally explains by obvious big balls up of my post.

Dax · Jun 10, 2005, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mistress Eyahl

And in responce to Dax:
Who says Tiger Practices more than any other golfer..?

I think I just did, or am I wrong to think that to get where he is Tiger practiced less than the 'casual' (I guess I have to get specific) golfer.

...but please don't answer I don't think this thread should go anymore off topic. Let's just say you disagree with me

Mistress Eyahl · Jun 10, 2005, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dax

I think I just did, or am I wrong to think that to get where he is Tiger practiced less than the 'casual' (I guess I have to get specific) golfer.

...but please don't answer I don't think this thread should go anymore off topic. Let's just say you disagree with me

Okay the references to Tiger ALONE are off topic.. but the rest aint. And.. if Tiger has natural ability what's to say he practises the same as other golfers.. or maybe even less than one or two.

I didna nooo you wos Tiger's stalker

May I have his autograph if you can get it? Oh and er.. some of his underpants?

P.s. I disagree

Dax · Jun 10, 2005, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mistress Eyahl

Okay the references to Tiger ALONE are off topic.. but the rest aint.

Oh, and I didna nooo you wos Tiger's stalker

May I have his autograph if you can get it? Oh and er.. some of his underpants?

P.s. I disagree

Fair enough, and umm thanks for thinking I was a stalker.... I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean, but for some reason that doesn't surprise me.

Tuna · Jun 10, 2005, 06:08 AM // 06:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManadartheHealer

No. Runes are not "rock+1". Runes make the build somewhat different, because they affect attribute distribution. The "+#" addition would account for actual skill (tactics/strategy). A plain "rock build" would simply be "rock", but a runed rock build would be something different ("Granite" for example).

This would look like...

Rock<Granite<Limestone<Pebbles<Rock

Of course, not that simple

Its difficult to compress Guild Wars into rock paper scissors without writing an entire essay for explanation. Perhaps to refine this we could say Rock + 10% efficiency, were 10% efficiency = 1. Runes typically won't effect which skills are in someones tool bar, so I would think that the advantage given in this analogy would be the same as added skill. But either way you look at it, if granite > rock and granite > scissors but granite < paper, you have the same concept. This concept is that runes are a necassary addition to a highly competitive team.

super dooper · Jun 10, 2005, 07:06 AM // 07:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akshara

I think there's a little confusion here as to what happened since this last update, and so I'll try to make this clearer - anyone who knows better, please correct the following or add some insight as to what may be happening...

I'm not a "farmer" in the strict sense, ie. I don't go out and spend hours farming for loot or rare items to resell to others. I just go through the quests and missions, sometimes on my own to get more of the drops, and sometimes with a PuG or Henchmen.

What has happened since the last patch is that if you are in an area by yourself, or even with a henchman, doing a normal quest and killing creatures, after a very short period of time, killing the same type of creature triggers them to stop dropping items or gold altogether, or drop only collector items and non-rare salvage materials. If you leave that zone and re-enter to reset the instance, it doesn't reset the drops and you get nothing but experience. Eventually creatures stop dropping everywhere. Logging off and restarting doesn't seem to have an effect either.

Make sense? This has been reported and confirmed by people on this forum, as well as on the two other major GW forum sites. There has been speculation that if one completes a mission or turns in the reward for a quest, that drops are reset for that character and start again, but not enough people have reported this behavior to nail down the pattern. It's not discussed in the update notes on the GW site, but appears to be a side effect of their attempts to prohibit "bot farming" altogether.

I'm not a farmer... but I like to do several quests at once and then go turn them in all at the same time, not do them one by one. If I'm in Kryta running around the land trying to do several quests in solo mode or with a hench or two, eventually all drops stop. When I solo, I'll often get overwhelmed and die a lot, and so decide to restart back at a town and try again to lose the dealth penalty, but the next time through there aren't any drops at all... this happened to me last night.

Also last night, a friend asked me to come back to Ascalon and help him get through the Nolani mission and bonus to which I said, "sure." I'm lvl 16 and the other three were below lvl 10, and I'd already completed both the mission and bonus. During the mission, unlike on my previous run throughs, I got like zero worthwhile drops... a few non-rare armors, a shell and a charr hide - for the entire mission and bonus. Meanwhile my friend and the others got all kinds of drops on just about every creature. At first I didn't think anything of it, just thought it was bad luck. But as the mission continued, I started wondering what the heck was going on... it wasn't normal, as I've gone through previous missions with high level characters before and never had such poor drops or lack thereof altogether. So not only did I get like zero experience for helping out, but I got hardly any items to sell to the merchant as well. I remember going through a mission with a full party and having my inventory crammed with stuff, or having to salvage items to make room during the mission... now i'm lucky to fill up the backpack.

On another site, a level 20 reported that he went back to help someone through an Ascalon mission today and didn't get a single drop the entire mission. So there is something going on here.

That was a very good description of the 'situation'.

Studio Ghibli · Jun 10, 2005, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Hell, if it's such a bad thing for the economy, I'd kill for an instanced area where I could find loot for points or something and exchange those points for whatever.

I just like item-finding.

I WANT TO ITEM-FIND. ;-;

Stone · Jun 10, 2005, 09:59 AM // 09:59

soo basically , those who spend more time adding to the ACTIVE content of the game, (in Many Forms) shouldnt get the slightest bit of advantage over som1 who sits down for 5mins & wants to have everything that they do..

if this is how gw is heading (so as to be nothing more then a playstation game) then im a bit disapointed.

this is the same attitude as you come across in other games where some just want everyone to have a +0 pool noodle or unlimited access to all "cheatcodes"/max items at there first sitting. which mind you you dont even get in console games as you have to play 10-40odd hours to clock it & open the best items & maps.. & id have to wonder just what the Guild ladder would MEAN without any competition or Competitive players, also i wonder if its "skill" some of you are boasting of or "luck" of using the right skills at right time if you ask me , i havent been to HoH yet but i bet its a whole new game, from what ive seen , ppl create & delete 10+ chars daily just to compete in the battles at drokners , i can only imagine the competiveness at HoH but if all "max items" are the same stats & all "players" can "farm" a bit to get those stats then perhaps like trading, questing & battling , Farming is a part of Guild Wars "the Game", Also.
ex: ppl miss out on skills not doing the quests & miss out on items running past monsters instead killing them & miss out on storyline by skipping cinematix, as they also miss out on the capped arenas & lessons learnt in them.. hmmmmm

to each thier own right?

my 2.3yen

asdar · Jun 10, 2005, 10:25 AM // 10:25

Shoot, I'm certainly not going to argue it. I'm sorry you farmers are going to have to move around occassionally to farm.

I know that everyone plays the game differently. It's absolutely foreign to me how anyone can enjoy that kind of thing.

At least in a game with a wide range of items I could understand if the only way you could get something you wanted was to farm but here that's not the case. I'd be surprised if it's faster to farm and buy than it would be to just finish the whole game and get the items on your own.

ImBobNewbie · Jun 10, 2005, 01:28 PM // 13:28

I can see why and also agree that the game devs are against farming. They want to be unique...different from all other online rpgs currently out. Anyway, the players who are against farming are either

a) into competitive pvp but get whooped by people with slightly better items (I have yet to see a highly ranked guild that does not farm often)
b) just casual gamers

Therefore, the people against farming are getting angry of the advantage farmers have in pvp. If they want to stay competitive, they're reduced to farming eventually.

Dax · Jun 10, 2005, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImBobNewbie

I can see why and also agree that the game devs are against farming. They want to be unique...different from all other online rpgs currently out. Anyway, the players who are against farming are either

a) into competitive pvp but get whooped by people with slightly better items (I have yet to see a highly ranked guild that does not farm often)
b) just casual gamers

Therefore, the people against farming are getting angry of the advantage farmers have in pvp. If they want to stay competitive, they're reduced to farming eventually.

If thats the case, then they should have made this game like any FPS where everyone has access to same weapons and skills. Anytime a game introduces extra items, unlockables, or upgrades there will be people who will spend time to get them. I don't care if they are random or incredibly hard to get...there will be someone who will take the time and find a way even if they spend months doing it. Also if a game has some sort of trade system, you bet there will be gatherers who will be stockpiling items to sell.

If they nerf farming everyone will still complain that people who reaped the benefits of getting all these cool items are too powerful..either way.

Stev0 · Jun 10, 2005, 03:42 PM // 15:42

I think the idea repeated doing the same thing over and over again is annoying. The inclusion of some kind of random quest generator would be nice if it included a random yet pre-stated objective/reward. The people for and against farming of items are going to always be at odds but once you give them something else to do the idea of straight farming maybe wont be so practical as it may seem.

Some one follow on from this?

Siren · Jun 10, 2005, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by CtrlAltDel

farming accelerates the introduction of items/gold into the games economy, thus throwing it out of wack and driving the game closer to D2...a way to maintain balance in the economy is to elminate the accelerated introduction of things into the economy...ie...nerfing farming areas

its all for the better

THANK YOU.

CtrlAltDel hit the nail on the head here. What I just quoted is the most succinct explanation of why farming is actually bad for the economy.

Also, everyone needs to read one of Akshara's previous posts:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akshara

Quoted since my earlier post didn't seem to make an impact on this discussion whatsoever.

There are two types of "farmers"...

1) The evil bad guys who farm to rip off the poor noobs, get a guild hall yesterday, or gain an advantage in PvP sooner than your average mortal. They screw up the economy, and spam chat the trade channel for hours on end. According to this thread and others like it, these people are the scum of the earth and need to get a life.

2) The normal, everyday player who likes to go on quests alone or with henchmen to get a larger share of drops, looking for cool items or things to sell to the merchants or other players in town for extra cash. Often they follow the quests and missions, give cool items away or cheaply which would be a shame to drop off at the merchant, and pretty much only want to get enough to buy that really cool dragon armor at some point.

Under the current situation, group 2 is being penalized because of the actions of group 1 and the nefarious "bot farmers."

The inflation was guaranteed to hit because of the powergamers/powergrinders. The changes we're seeing only three months after launch were guaranteed because of the powergamers/powergrinders. Anyone who supports farming--rather, powergrinding, because let's be honest here; farming is just a pretty word for powergrinding here--is not helping the situation.

The influx of gold itself, brought about by farming/powergrinding, into the player economy is what is screwing things up in-game, like what I have said in the past, like what CtrlAltDel has said here, like what Akshara has said here.

Those who say the change is breaking the game...that they're nerfing farming and it's basically making the gameplay unplayable...the changes are going to ultimately improve the game, because with the reduced drop rates (and I'm looking at a reduced gold drop rate in a future update), the changes are cutting inflation off at its source: powergrinding.

I'm seeing the same, repetitive arguments over and over, and so few of them are actually getting what's going on. lol

Chev of Hardass · Jun 10, 2005, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren

I'm seeing the same, repetitive arguments over and over, and so few of them are actually getting what's going on. lol

So, since those that are powergrinders and powerlevelers have already ammased a huge quantity of gold, unlocked all their runes, and have back-up top damage weapons for each day of the week, the casual farmer gets screwed.

That is the problem here. I am looking at the possibility that I will not be able to use a superior vigor in PvP. I cannot afford it, you want there to be less money and I have none, and it looks like I will not find a Superior Vigor, the way they keep cutting drops.

Now, there is a ever largening gap between the very rich and those trying to catch up, and cutting off the money supply will not help.

Studio Ghibli · Jun 10, 2005, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Cross-posting this.

. I'm doing Thunderhead Keep for the third time right now. It's the third time because my party has failed to think with its head as opposed to its sword.

So, the third time.

The drops, in short, suck.

The majority are common (gold, collector's items, whites), an occasional blue, an even more occasional purple (two in three runs), and one gold.

That's for the entire party.

There's the error that my count might be off. After all, it's hard to catch every drop.

- edit-

To clarify, each failure has come at least after the clearing of the city, normally during the fight with Dagnar or whatever.

We're on the fourth round now, and I've made it my duty (and informed the part as well) to count blues.

Four so far.

No purples.

No gold.

Everything else common.

Phantom Force · Jun 10, 2005, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Sorry to say CrtlAltDlt idea of game getting out of whack because of powergrinding like D2 is way off. If anyone has played D2 they know D2 was screwed up not because of people Mf'ing, it was because of the dupes, bots, and hacks that were created and allowed. People were duping and bot'ing so much that items were always being found/created rather than dropping once in awhile. This is what messed up the economy. I am an avid farmer, I don't do it 24/7 but somedays depending on how much time I have I'd like to farm, other days I'd PvP or help friends. There is a huge difference between this game and D2's screwed up economy because of losers in the game and losers at blizzard.

Nerfing farming drops so they are slightly less was a good idea, but making farming areas so they are non-existent or almost non-existent takes away from the average player. By average player I mean, that if you came to this game it was because it offered something all other games didn't. It offered you the chance to play and be competitive even if you only played 2-3 hours a day or so. So far weapons/armor only give a minimal advantage if any. It's really about teamwork and skill rather than just your items. The game appeal was not solely to PvP or PvE. The game appeal was to all types of players, that is why the game is/was soo big at release. However if they start changing things that turn away average players. You'll see numbers drop, and I highly doubt GW will survive with just the PvP players. I think Anet needs to reconsider some things and work on a better compromise rather than reducing drop rates further, lower gold drops, and making it impossible to farm.

Eclair · Jun 10, 2005, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdar

Shoot, I'm certainly not going to argue it. I'm sorry you farmers are going to have to move around occassionally to farm.

I know that everyone plays the game differently. It's absolutely foreign to me how anyone can enjoy that kind of thing.

At least in a game with a wide range of items I could understand if the only way you could get something you wanted was to farm but here that's not the case. I'd be surprised if it's faster to farm and buy than it would be to just finish the whole game and get the items on your own.

I've finished the game on my main, and is at Ring of Fire on both my secondary and tertiary. I generally have done every single quest (except villainy) and every single mission on all of them, including many of the bonus missions. I'd say a total of 300 hours of gameplay and maybe 15 hours of farming. I can safely say that I've unlocked 3-4 times the superiors, majors, and minors, and made 10 times more money in those 15 hours of farming than I have through the 285 hours of going through the game.

Phantom Force · Jun 10, 2005, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclair

I've finished the game on my main, and is at Ring of Fire on both my secondary and tertiary. I generally have done every single quest (except villainy) and every single mission on all of them, including many of the bonus missions. I'd say a total of 300 hours of gameplay and maybe 15 hours of farming. I can safely say that I've unlocked 3-4 times the superiors, majors, and minors, and made 10 times more money in those 15 hours of farming than I have through the 285 hours of going through the game.

/nod
I didn't check the amount of hours I've played the game, but I never leveled a character straight through to 20 right away. I leveled a Necro to 16 then switched to W/Mo (which eventually I took to 20), then I started a Monk and to her to 20 (and I still haven't gotten to ring of fire yet). Since I didn't rush right out to 20 to farm to unlock things insanely quick like many others, I haven't even had a chance to really start farming or even taken the time to try now (since all the nerf to farming recently). I figured I'd ride it out see where game is going before making a decision on what to do. However in the amount of time it's taken me to level a Necro to 16, Warrior 20, and Monk 20 I haven't unlocked 1, I repeat ONE freaking Superior rune through regular gameplay. Of course I could save up but in the time that it has taken me to get 2 characters to 20 and what I spent to get some runes, better weapon for warrior, armor, and few other things here and there I've accumulated about 25k gold that I have left over. What the hell can I buy with 25K? Certainly not a Sigil or a Superior Vigor. So if you think you can play story straight through and get everything you need, umm don't even try telling me you can.
Walk a mile in my shoes before you try claiming regular play through story can open up runes and certain items. Pffffff.